okay i think that's uh the majority of people come on board so as i said before very good afternoon and welcome to today's webinar my name is justine fosh and and i sit on the food and drink wales industry board and i'm going to tell you a little bit more about the work that we do uh shortly um however what i'd like to do just to kick off is to talk a little bit about our housekeeping rules and so we really want this to be a very inclusive um webinar but it's difficult with such a huge number of people i think we've got about 90 people joining us here today and so just a few housekeeping rules um the team have made sure that all the microphones and cameras are switched off so if you could keep them switched off that would be great and that'll allow just the speakers to uh to turn their mics on and um and to be seen the um if you have any questions obviously we'd be delighted to take them uh there's a chat function so if you can uh put your questions into the chat function what we'll do is we will be looking at the the themes that are coming through some of the questions um and we'll put them to uh to the panel if you like um when we when we have uh time towards the end there's some time being built in to answer some of your questions um so this will this to be um to be clear make sure you're on the right webinar this webinar is in relation to the food and drink industry welsh apprenticeship consultations it's not about anything else so hopefully you're on the right one and also just to say this is primarily about reaching out uh to businesses to food and drink um companies in wales to get their views so we're particularly keen to hear views of the food and drink employers here today unfortunately today we're not able to offer our welsh translation service but there is a transcript available if people need it microscopic teams has it in build so say easy to do and the webinar is also being recorded in the event that anybody wants to to see it at a future date um so without further ado i'm going to move on now and just explain a little bit more about the work of the food and drink wells board we were created really to support delivery of the action plan and provide industry leadership to help achieve industry growth we have a wide number of topics that we we look at but skills from the very start has been a core focus of the work of the board and we developed a document called transforming skills in the welsh screening sector which outlined the four key areas of our work and apprenticeships was absolutely top of those it's a key strand of the strategy and one of our objectives is to ensure that employers are informed and that their voices are heard as we come through reform a period of reform and currently throughout um apprenticeships where all sectors of wales are being reformed and it does include food and drink and the purpose of this webinar is to provide the opportunity for food businesses to engage find out more and have their voices heard through the consultation that is now open so today i am delighted to uh to be joined by uh two two very eminent speakers on the subject um so i'm going to introduce firstly louise coddling from the national skills academy for food and drink and then i'm going to introduce wayne scoberg from welsh government louise would you like to just introduce yourself tell us uh what's your name where'd you come from and and what is it that you do um hi my name is louise coddling i am um chief executive of the national skills academy for food and drink um i'm working very closely with the welsh government um in their reform agenda or apprenticeships okay fantastic and wayne are wayne are you there are you able to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more about yourself hi i'm wayne scoberg i work in the apprenticeship unit of the welsh government i'm the senior apprenticeship frameworks manager and my role is to oversee the development and reform of the apprenticeships in wales fantastic thank you both thank you very very very much so without further ado i'm going to dive into the subject and to to help to try and understand a little bit more about um about the consultation and where we are so turning to you wayne i wonder if you'd explain what the background to the reforms of friendships are what are the policy drivers what's welsh government trying to achieve by reforming apprenticeships in wales hi um our vision is to develop a responsive and resilient apprenticeship system that will support employers we want to develop and deliver apprenticeships that are innovative and industry focused the system needs to support economic growth be responsive to the needs of the future economy and provide a range of skills that are that aid social mobility and ensure equality of opportunity back in 2017 the welsh government published um its apprenticeship plan uh which was a five-year plan and part of that plan set out how we were going to reform our apprenticeship frameworks we wanted to increase the school levers into apprenticeships we wanted to deliver more higher level apprenticeships and we wanted to get a more robust system and to establish a a pattern and a program of getting responses from employers and this is what we're trying to do now is to meet the needs of the employers of wales through our apprenticeship system we last year we because we had two consultations to aid us in that the first consultation was for the welsh government to take ownership of the issuing authority of the flagship frameworks and the second one was to look at the actual structure of the apprenticeship frameworks and part of that was to move away from the current apprenticeship framework model to 23 sector frameworks and food and drink being one of those can i ask you wayne perhaps um why was food and drink chosen to be one of those sectors it was there a recognition dare i say of the importance of food and drinking water yes food and drink is one of the 23 sectors we chose those which were a priority sector for wales and those which we felt would aid the economy in wales fantastic well and that's really good to know and i i think i think it's great that the welsh government have recognized importance particularly food and drink manufacturing to the welsh economy um it's a subject that's dear to our hearts on the board and one of the things i'm interested in in wales is what's the linkages to uh the things like the future generations act and you mentioned about an inclusive uh framework um how important is that yes we we're looking to over over time look at the content of our frameworks and to make them more inclusive both gender wise and age-wise and uh bilingually so we are looking not at the holistic approach to uh apprenticeships and as well as looking at uh improving the content of both the knowledge and the and the competency uh elements we're trying to look at making our frameworks more occupational focused and go towards higher levels and more technical uh areas we're looking that a an apprentice has a apprenticeship progression pathway so they can see that they can start in the industry and see a a map away through the uh in industry through an apprenticeship pathway okay that and that's great so so in summary what i'm hearing is i think that part of the aim of the airport of the reform agenda is greater occupational focus more robust uh more technically more technical content and then more closely meets the needs of industry and employers as the customer and the custodian really of apprenticeships yes that's um i think that's really clear so that's really helpful thank you so um what is the process that's being uh used to to obviously you've got you've got frameworks that um you want to reform you've got an ambition to achieve um quite a different future what's the what's the process by which you're going through to reform reform apprenticeships we are currently going through a three year uh reform process why by we are taking framework sector by sector um and over the next three years we will uh review and reform those frameworks um we do that by uh commissioning development partners who will set up a stephen group on the west government behalf and to go through the four-step process which i think louise is going to go in into more detail later but the fundamental part of our reform is the inclusion and engagement with employers and we put a lot of emphasis on actually meeting the needs of both the apprentice but also hearing the voice of of the employers because at the end of the day it's the employer who's going to employ these apprentices and that's the way we want to take this forward fantastic so it's important that employers are very engaged in um in in the activity and and i'm sure louise will come on to talk about how how employers can be um how they can be involved and engaged more in it so am i right in saying that um in terms of the the partner that welsh government are working with on the informed agendas that's that's very much what the national skills academy for food and drink are doing so if i could turn to um louise then um i i suppose a big question is that there's an ambitious reform agenda that welsh government got across all different apprenticeships that exist um and clearly there's a need for that to um apply into food and drink so in terms of supporting the food and drink uh industry what experience have you got in this area uh really of supporting apprenticeships so with national skills academy has had many years experience working in all four nations around development of apprenticeships frameworks national occupational standards um as the sector skills council for food and drink it was our role on the development of apprenticeship frameworks and standards across all four nations uh previously we were also the issuing authority for wales although wales has subsequently taken on that role themselves but we are still the issuing authority in in the other nations um and we were responsible for leading the development of all of the original welsh frameworks and looking after the ongoing maintenance of those frameworks through um uh you know working within the sectors and doing the work we do we um we also have been heavily involved in the england apprenticeship reform agenda and facilitating a number of employer-led groups in the design and development of their new apprenticeship standards in areas such as food operations food tech bakery and engineering to mention but a few in the last few years um the process in the nations has changed significantly um and we now have to submit um a bid in into to deliver these types of activities in a competitive tendering process um and we've been successful in securing um this part of the welsh apprenticeship activity um and other um activity in food and drink across all of the other nations so um been been very very long time working in this arena and have some very experienced in-house personnel to help support that happen it sounds like it sounds like you've been busy okay so um tell us a little bit more about what's happened today in terms of the reforms so um so wayne's obviously engaged the engage yourselves uh wants to achieve all of this ambitious program where are we now in the program what's happening okay well if mark if i could have a slight upper slide please that would be quite helpful so it's it's important to understand that the the national skills academy are here to help facilitate welsh government um implement the reform process for apprenticeships that they want to do so we follow the four-step process that is very clearly laid out to us in the documentation as part of our sufficient and then it's the document that we live and breathe by whilst we are um leading on this process the first stage is planning so we work closely with wayne and his team to understand what they're thinking in this area how we can bring that together and the direction of travel um what's working what's not working and looking at how those current apprenticeships are landing once the planning stage through and we have an idea of how we want to approach the particular frameworks that we're reviewing um it is it is our goal to help facilitate the setting up of a steering group and the steering group is made up of various different people employers stakeholders we have providers on it we have welsh nation support on it and welsh government are also on part of also part of that group to help ensure that it goes in the right direction and angela that the policy um is always um being you know that they can make sure that policy is being adhered to as part of the steering group activity and just sort of steering us really in the right direction and making sure that the steering group really does the top level review of the particular framework or the particular area that we're looking at and makes its recommendations and then we set up a series of employer workshops where we take it out to specific employer groups to look at recommendations that have been made by the steering group and then really get into the detail of what that would look like in terms of an apprenticeship so we get into detail of um the types of units the types of technical skill and knowledge that they would like to see as part of it what the direction of travel of the industry is so it's reflected in the program and the apprenticeship being developed and with a high focus on occupations and technical skills and knowledge um with hopefully the output of being a better high quality apprenticeship product and program of learning to support that product once those workshops have happened to take that back to our steering group we then collate all of the feedback and recommendations into a public consultation and those consultations are available through many different um access points welsh government have an access point i know the food and drink board have also been making that available through some of their medias and it sits on our website where employers can come on and give us feedback around the specific recommendations that are coming out of the steering group and the employer workshops around those particular programs that we're doing at any moment in time once we have the feedback and the consultation we will make some money some changes to um to it depending on what the feedback is and sometimes that might be minor changes and other times it might be that we would re-look at that again and take it back to our steering group for feedback and we would then submit those recommendations into welsh government for final and once that's signed off and everybody's happy um it either remains as as it is or or there are minor changes made it to it and then qualifications wales will step in and support the development of anything new that needs to be um developed um as part of a new apprenticeship that's been designed um and helps support um the sector take that out to market in terms of its qualifications and how they're okay and that sounds a fairly rigorous process from um from start to finish in terms of of getting a lot of feedback from your steering group early on and then um and then obviously getting feedback and amending it as you go um so so um not many people i think possibly understand what an apprenticeship framework is the fact that there's lots of different yes projects within it there's almost like apprenticeships within an apprenticeship so yeah what what what's happened to date what have we where are we in the process have you done any already have you got some to are you in the middle of them what's the current situation so the current apprenticeship frameworks allow employers to select from a huge vast array of units and it can be quite difficult for employers to navigate their way around the framework particularly in understanding what's necessarily the best options for them but also to understand when they're recruiting an apprentice that what skills and knowledge do they have because the apprenticeships are quite huge so they're quite difficult to navigate their way around but part of the remit that we are working on is to sort of to to make them a little bit more sophisticated in terms of how employers engage with them and allow them to engage with them in a more proactive way where they understand exactly what they're doing what units they're choosing and how they can work with these apprenticeships to deliver much more technical and higher quality programs um if you could put that slide up mark that would be quite helpful sorry um in the is it coming up [Music] thank you so so currently we've been working on the review of of four different pathways engineering and brewing so food and drink engineering maintenance which is a level three apprenticeship and brewing um which it was an existing program um we also reviewed food manufacturing excellence at levels two three and four and industry skills at levels two and three the first two um engineering this was reviewed by the steering group very very early on it's a fairly new program and nobody's actually been through and completed the whole program yet um so the recommendations from the sector group were let's just leave it alone until we have a little bit more data is already a very technical program it was designed with occupations and roles in mind and um really designed around the roles that are specific to engineering within the food and drink sector so it already meets quite a lot of the new reform criteria um and this and is and is getting very positive feedback from the employers that are engaged on it so we made some a very light touch review of that program we went um out to the employers that are engaged in the program um and we worked with the college that are delivering that program and we also did the public consultation to say can we leave it as it is um let's wait until we've had our first learners complete the program um and let's see where we are then rather than mixing with tweaking with something when it's part way through it's for the pilot phase the pembrokeshire college are delivering this and they're the first provider to take up their delivery of this apprenticeship um and having spoken with them and um all of the employers that are on the program the feedback on that is currently really really positive it's a really successful program so we are continuing to work with other providers to help drive demand for this program more broadly across across wales i think it was worth saying louise that that programme was one that the board were very very keen on and i think at the last skill summit we had in uh in uh in the londondo i think we uh we helped launch it so it's really good to know it's it's doing well and uh and successful so far yeah both both provider and employers extremely happy with it so far so it it would be a miss of us to sort of dive into that and start changing it without the knowledge of of its success so the second um uh apprenticeship that we reviewed was brewing an existing brewing program was reviewed through the steering group and the beer and cider cluster and the feedback was that they agreed it needed to be far more technical in its nature as the current framework as with all of our frameworks has a very large number of units that employers can select from not all of which are brewing specific so in essence you could have a learner that goes through without doing very many technical brewing units so they're very very keen to ensure that that some of the brewing technical units would be mandated as part of the new program um so we worked with them we worked with the clusters and we rebuilt the qualification to ensure that learners going through it had to do a number of specifically mandated brewing specific units to enable to demonstrate that they were working with the mass sector and gaining the right and appropriate technical knowledge and skills to call themselves a brewer um so this has been through consultation it's been through public consultation um and the new qualification development is being facilitated by qualification wales currently um and our understanding is that um all of the feedback from the public consultation on on that program was extremely positive um and certainly um we we've enabled and enabled us to engage with a larger number of brewers that hopefully will decide to engage in that apprenticeship going forward so very very successful so far on those two particular um programs that we have reviewed so they've been through have they been through the full cycle the one the one to four stages that you identified earlier they've done that's all been done they have yeah so so they you know engineering was pretty simple so it's you know that that wasn't that was a you know it but but again it was still a good process to go through to make sure that you know that because we could have made these changes if we needed to and and we did review it anyway um but from a brewing perspective i think we will the sector will end up with a really high quality apprenticeship program um and it's just really now about making sure that brewers that consulted with us and engaged with us on it now actively you know embark on using that program as an apprenticeship going forward okay excellent so yes so that's so that's engineering and brewing and and they mentioned food manufacturing excellence and fears and i think that's that's where we are now in terms of um of the process and consultation so um where are we with those what's happening um on what's the proposals that are in place for those so with the food manufacturing excellence and food industry skills we have been through the first two phases of our process so we've done the planning phase um we've had this employer steering groups and we've had the working party group so it's been through quite a few phases of that already um and at the moment it's we're at the public consultation stage and obviously there's been a number of things that have happened over the last few months um sort of impeded organizations and businesses engaging in this so part of the reason that we're doing this today is to try and encourage more employers to become involved in not just you know reviewing these particular apprenticeships but also getting involved more broadly in the reform agenda so food industry skills is the largest framework and the one that's most widely used by the food and drink sector um it is it's it is um a generic pretty generic framework that and again allows employers to select from a vast array of units which again you know is difficult to understand sometimes what particular framework and what skills you are developing so with a focus on occupations and more technical content the main role for the steering group is these two reviews was to try and determine which occupations and roles within the sector sat within the individual frameworks to enable them to ensure that they covered the right amount of knowledge and skills in the right areas and enable them to be developed much more closely around the roles that have been identified as linked to those they're really important frameworks um as they're very widely used um and these are the ones where we can start to develop um more technical operational skill um and and keeping in line with the future of the food and drink sector which is moving more towards automation and high-tech factories and the technical skills that are needed to develop to deliver um the food and drink agenda need to be within these these frameworks um in terms of operations and technical capability okay so um so with that with that in mind um you've got you've got obviously the the um the reforms that you've looked at you've got some consultations out um and and you've got the level two and the level three um in play okay so if i talk about it is for food manufacturing excellence it's best to sort of put them all together um the apprenticeship is focused on quality and improvement and the steering group were really found it difficult to determine which occupations sat within that specific framework um and we we were unable to determine that this met the criteria that was being set in terms of identifying the roles and the occupations and and at these particular levels the steering group didn't believe that there were roles within organizations that were specific to this type of apprenticeship it was agreed that elements of all of the apprenticeships needed to include parts of what's in the fme framework so things like continuous improvements and quality and and asset care however it wasn't a role right at that level um and that elements of those should be taken and used in the other apprenticeships rather than having that framework in its own right also the numbers at level two and three um for the food manufacturing excellence um apprenticeship are very very low um and and most providers are delivering it but they're not delivering it as an apprenticeship they're delivering it as a standalone course for qualification um and this will still be able to access by employers and providers as a standalone qualification but as an as a um as an apprenticeship framework it does not meet the criteria of the occupations it's more elements of a role rather than being a role in his own right so the recommendations from the steering group for food manufacturing excellence are that levels two and three be the best bits of levels two and three get incorporated into other apprenticeship standards and it is not any more a standalone program um and however the group were able to identify an occupation for a quality and improvement role at level four okay so the level four um apprenticeship will remain or the recommendations are statics will remain and we may put that into the food industry skills framework so you have levels two three and four um or it may stand alone that's yet to be determined but as stanford stanford occupation we were able to identify somebody at the level four role um so therefore that factification and that framework will recommended that it will remain so that's food manufacturing excellent so food and drink industry skills level two um the recommendations coming out of the group whether this should be split into operational and sales service areas at the moment all of the units are together within one qualification so it's quite difficult again for to understand whether you're dealing with somebody in operations or whether you're dealing with somebody um that is doing sales and service or working in the sales and service areas and the manufacturing um elements of it needed to be pulled out more and the sales and service side of it also needed to be pulled out more so many of the roles covered by this framework the employers felt a split would identify the roles better in between manufacturing and sales and service so the recommendation for fears at level two is that the qualifications are redeveloped but with specific mandated areas to cover compliance technical knowledge and skills then with the separate set of units to cover the specific areas that they're working in and then and some software skills and then also a group of principles of knowledge skills which are the deep guide into the knowledge that's required of the particular occupations so um that's the recommendations coming out of that group so it's quite a big change um and it does allow um uh businesses to focus on operational people in a different way and have a more specific set of units that they pick from um and having to select a mandated set of units within compliance and technical ensuring that the agenda is met that the the apprenticeship do have a more technical focus so you will see more technical units being mandated as part of the qualification and in fact the employers and welsh government have been very flexible around what can be included within the apprenticeship so we could include just a knowledge certificate if the employers felt that that was useful we could blend it into um you know the the competency program so there's real lots of different ways that employers can approach and take a view on some of how they are developing these new programs to deliver what they're requiring in terms of technical skill going forward that's that's the level twos okay so on level two so if i if i try and um summarize what i think i i heard so what you're saying is in in essence fizz sounds the the food industry sounds like it's being sort of split and there'll be a sort of an operations one focusing on food manufacturing factories and activities within there and then another one which is looking at sales and service but essentially it sounds to me like um the the the whatever's in there now in terms of units will either probably be in one or the other or or will they will it be very very different it will be in one or the other um and there will be some that will be you'll be able to share across them when you're talking about some of the softer skills but the sales service will sit separately to the manufacturing operations so that you if you're an employer recruiting somebody that has conducted that apprenticeship it will quite clearly say that it was the manufacturing pathway or the sales and service pathway so you you know what you're getting when you when you recruit and you know as an employer when you're looking at it which is the most appropriate route for your learners to take yeah yeah and i would i would imagine that um that at level two some some of the level two skills that we see are are quite uh they're not all automated it's quite they can be quite manual even some craft skills i noticed there's questions around about sort of some of the the craft skills does are they included in that would they be in the operations route way or in the sales and service or well the craft the craft frameworks are separate to this particular framework so this is really about manufacturing operations so if you were training to be a butcher you would do the the meat and poultry um pathways rather than this unless the majority of your role was an operator with a little bit of craft knowledge in which case you would contextualize how you're delivering that program so big operator little butcher or big butcher little operator would sort of determine whether you went the craft through or whether you went through an operational route so it is designed particularly to look at you know operational roles within within the manufacturing environment there will be some technical elements in it but it won't be as technical as a level three qualification where the capability requirements will be higher okay so on level three then level three is a step up it's a it's a this is a similar environment manufacturing environment it's a it's a step up in terms of i'm guessing autonomy um you know potentially technical requirements first line maintenance and things like that is is that what we're trying to get out to here some of those more automated plants or yeah so the steering group identified the main occupation for this level would be a technician so that could be a technical operator it could be a multi-skilled operator we had lots of different job roles within this particular occupation that came out but it did require an element of multi-skilling um they wanted to include things like asset care they wanted to include um you know some higher level technical skill around quality and science so a real different approach to um you know what the future role of the operator is likely to be and already is in a lot of the organizations that we spoke with and um to achieve that um you know currently the framework has no requirement for technical units you can you can pick and choose from all of the units that are there and you know they're all up to level three but you could do some that aren't relevant to a more highly skilled role so the recommendations from the group were that there were some mandated technical units that the learner must do at that particular if they do this particular qualification and the new framework should offer you know a really sufficient level of technical units to help develop the operators of the future for the businesses where things like automation and high-tech operations will require will require more highly skilled technicians and we've seen this as a pattern across all of the nations wanting to have more technician level roles within their um within within the food manufacturing environment to enable them to future proof um you know their operations going forward so this is this is a theme that we see across all of the nations looking for more technician type apprenticeship programs okay that's really helpful so i think it was a very thorough kind of review of all of that so i'm quite quite quite complex but i think i think the the um the changes are are kind of speak for themselves really um i think one of the um presumably you've had you've been out to consultation have you had feedback already what's the general consensus been from the feedback that you've had to date so so it's not for public consultation at the moment and i know that mark and um we'll share all of the links to that later so that everybody can go on and involved in generally the feedback is very positive so including the steering groups the working groups and the online consultation we've had we've had over 20 responses to the level 2 operations program um so the respondees are a mixture of employers and providers and awarding organizations and generally the employers are all happy with the proposals with a few recommendations for enhancements that have been made um they certainly understand that the proposed changes will start to deliver significantly better and more technical apprenticeships and i think that they're they're very happy to sort of go along with the reforms and and and try and generate be involved in the design and development of something that's quite exciting you know some some organizations are less keen on the reforms um and you know that will take a little bit more work um but i think the employers are keen to improve the quality of both the frameworks and the training that's provided as part of the apprenticeship framework so from an employer's perspective the feedback has been extremely positive okay and and and as i should have said presumably at the beginning of this um really one purpose of today is to make sure that we get as much feedback as possible um from employers because that's that's who this is primarily aimed at and i think um uh and i think the consultation i know mark put the details up uh on the slide earlier and i think you'll put them in the chat if people are uh well hopefully people will be encouraged to go and have a look at them in more detail and and get involved just a very quick question really to to wayne who um uh who's obviously the the uh architect of much of this um does it sound to you like the the reforms that the design that's coming up the feedback from employers that it's heading in the right direction yes um we are looking from a policy policy perspective for more high level frameworks more technical frameworks more occupational focused frameworks so it's going in the right direction yes perfect that's really good um okay so um so i was going to say your job's almost done the consultation hopefully get more more involved more involvement from people and then uh and then these two frameworks uh or pathways rather will be done what's next is is there any more or um or um so the public consultation on food manufacturing excellence and food industry skills is being extended and it is open until the 30th of september the links are here and i know that they will be um circulated post this post this meeting as well and it's very important from a world government perspective that the employers voices are heard so please please go on and complete the the consultation if you need any more information about anything that i have spoken about then do feel free to contact either myself or at the national skills um the next phase of the reform agenda is already coming quickly and fast at us um and and in early october october we will be beginning to conduct the review for the next phase of the food and drink reviews that are happening so um meat and poultry bakery fish and shellfish fresh produce and dairy are the next five um pathways that we will be looking at so so and these are the ones to get involved in when you want to look at the craft and certainly um do feel free to contact us if you'd like to get involved we are in the process of the planning phase at the moment with wayne and welsh government um but we sort of know the process so we in the background we are trying to already set up some working parties in the specific sub-sector areas um and taking them through and we've had really really good interest in this already so anybody working in those those sectors that would like to get involved and helping shape what those apprenticeships look like going forward then please do get in touch with us and we'll ensure that you're included in all of the information and meetings that we have going forward so um so so in as well as filling in the um consultation for this set of um apprenticeships people can actually get involved in the can they get involved in the steering committee or them or being a part it would be great if we could have you know the steering group was set up to do fme and fears so as now we will look to to look at who watch employers we need on the steering group now as well so that we make sure that we've got good representation um across those sectors and then sub sector groups that will look at the individual pathways independently so um in the world of zoom and microsoft teams and we might find bringing some of those employers together far easier and particularly with the geography life of wales um it would be you know we'll we are going to do it in short sharp sessions rather than big long walk day sessions so we we have a plan but if somebody would like to get involved just let us know and we'll really ensure you are sure so so what i'm hearing is very open process though so um people who want to be involved um and it's great there's so many here today be great to get in contact and um and get involved with you for either the existing ones or the craft ones and my big bold letters here say to everybody on the on the call so if you're an employer please make sure that you get involved fill in the consultation by the 30th of september um and get in touch with louise if you want to be part of the steering group or get involved in any of the future activities because uh back to wayne's point this is the you know it's really important we get as many employers as possible feeding into this and and being informed and supporting or on the other hand um you know challenging if they think it's it's not right because this this framework doesn't belong to uh doesn't belong to the nsa doesn't belong it doesn't belong to welsh government but but really it belongs to the employers and so that's why the call-out is is so important um so i think uh we've we've got about uh 10 minutes left so i had a couple of questions that were sent in from people who couldn't come and also i've been uh looking at the chat information on um on the uh that's been coming through so there's a couple of things i just want to touch on if that's all right um so some of the questions um earlier on uh that we were asked um what were around about um uh what so and i think maybe wayne or maybe louise either of you um uh when will all this be completed was one of the questions i had i had asked because obviously it's a rolling program um is there an end in sight for a situation where the food industry can say we've got all of our apprentices have all been reformed there's no more change because um we all know that change breeds instability it's difficult for the whole supply system that has to deliver friendships to gear up for that so do we have a given idea of when when the end of the reforms might happen probably a wayne question i think maybe um yeah we're quite far advanced with the food and drink framework so we're looking for to to be completed anytime between next march and next summer um we would then like to hold it for two to three years before we do any more reviews that's the plan but obviously if something changes if something new comes along then we are at liberty to review them at any time but we're trying to make them a bit future proof so that come so that they can remain there for a number of years what we don't want to be doing is reviewing every six months um but then we don't want to review and leave a devil five or six years so we're looking at about a three-year standstill with the opportunity to review it if the sector so desires so if some new new technology comes along and that needs to be embedded into the pathway then there's the opportunity to do that so we'd like it to be robust and stable but we'd like it to have the opportunity as technologies come on board to to slip those into the framework at a quite easy way so two one yes we'd like it to remain stable but we'd also like to update it as and when required okay okay that was really helpful so and i think uh i suspect a period of time to enable it all to bed down and see how it's going and sounds like a very sensible idea so a couple of questions that have have also been raised along the way so there was a question around about um the makeup of the steering group now um who who's who who's involved in the student group who sits around it um adi welsh um i do the work in wales um so um i think i'm right in saying that the makeup of the student group is suggested by you wayne and then it's and then it's uh louise you you kind of recruit is that right so wait what's the makeup of the theory these we've we've issued guidance on who we expect to be on a steaming group so on a steering group we would expect industry and sector representation we would expect employers we would expect an awarding body or a body awarded body representation we would expect qualification whales we would expect training provider representation and where appropriate trade union representation and also welsh government policy and apprenticeship representation so so that that is the guidance we then handed over to our development partner to put that uh steering group together and somebody from welsh government sits on on the steering group and we have suggested um people to come onto the steam group just to make sure that there's a fair a balance what do we what we would like to have with employers is a representation from across wales so uh somebody from north somebody from south a large employer a small employer so we're trying to get um a balance and a fair representation of the employers um we also get in contact with fsb and cbi who are on our advisory board and they oversee this as well to make sure that because we one of the original criticisms to be had of the development was that um the same two or three employers were asked to be on on the steering group every single time and so we were only getting the views of a limited number of employers so we're trying to be much more transparent and get a much wider range because we want the apprenticeship to be appropriate for not only for large employers but also for smes as well okay perfect thank you so uh so louise in terms of the uh the steering group that you have i think um have you got a so presumably it's chaired by somebody and uh so so have you got sort of have you got people from wales there have you got representation from the key people that are required yeah so so it's chair it's chaired by an employer we have a number of providers on it and close wales is on it so they look after all of the that that side of it for us obviously um somebody from wayne's team sits on it um it's difficult to get some of the smaller providers smaller employers to come to the meetings which is why i think going forward um we'll have we will be able to roll that out to quite a few of the smes that we already work with um and um and you so so we we we hit most of that but we certainly hit that when we get out into our um working parties too yeah okay um there's a couple of questions questions being raised about uh can people see the makeup of the steering group can they see the terms of reference um i've seen them on your website i think um in welsh government so they're they're free published but we can certainly send over or get linked up to um to who's in the steering group and the terms of reference so i don't think that's there's nothing there's nothing secretive any of this is very open process i think that's right isn't it yeah yeah so yeah not not a problem so um so everybody can can uh can see us involved and this and this is very much you know the purpose of doing this is everybody on this call you know has a has an interest in the public sector we'll have contacts we'll be working with employers might be an employer uh might be supporting employers and um and i think the whole point of having the steering group as as certainly i think when you explain it to me is that it's that reach out that everybody has um throughout wales again as many different businesses involved um how has covert affected the ability to engage um kind of with with employers would you often would it be something that you'd want to do for a face-to-face or one-to-one how's that how is it helped or hindered we have changed our guidance um because initially the steering groups were face-to-face and we had face-to-face workshops now due to covert everything is microsoft teams skype and what we're finding is we are getting a more representation because people don't have to travel they can just um so yeah so we are finding we are getting more varied take up as well due to this but everything is going to be virtual for the foreseeable future it's even easier for people to get involved here and you to be involved in this you can do it from the comfort of your own desk at home i i think it will be much easier we've been doing some research last week um with around all of the businesses that we've been working with and a lot of that was wales focused and um if we are able to run them much more remotely we will have a lot more businesses that will want to get involved in both the steering group and and the working party so i think it will a bit a much richer experience going forward excellent good um so my final question really um it is is to louise and antoine is is there more that the food drink wells board can do to support you um has this been helpful should we do more more like this um and what else could we do to help you me um from a board perspective i think you know you've been incredibly supportive and i also think that you know raising the profile of some of the work that we're doing i think it would be really good to do a session with employers about what apprenticeships are um and and you know how how they have been engaging with them and how easy how they can access i think that might be quite helpful um but i think you know anything that you can do to help support getting the message out about being involved um and and taking part in all of this work anything that you can do in that area would be very helpful yeah and similarly anything else that you can think of or or is that does that happen i think yeah that's very helpful it's the communication and representing the industry um be on this on this stephen group and just get to help us with a communication because the more we communicate the more feedback we get the more people get involved because the apprenticeships are for the the apprentices and the um employers those are our end users yeah and i i guess i guess at this particular period in time where where um where the industry well the whole economy has gone through quite a shock in terms of um in terms of lock down in terms of covert um that there's even more incentive to try and support younger people into work um i think all the evidence suggests younger people who have been hit most by the current economic situation so um and and whilst i know apprenticeships aren't just for young people but i think um it's a great opportunity for employers to to think about how they can how they can be part of supporting uh people coming into our industry because we do know we have a shortage um and uh and and it was ever thus so hopefully you know um new apprenticeship frameworks that are rigorous and robust that give them a great career you know there's even more incentive for young people to hopefully come and come and join our industry um so um so in terms of final questions really i think um i think that um uh one question which i think is often the case there's a lot of really good work is done on apprenticeships in terms of reform and everything but but in terms of communicating the end result of it the fact that there's a new apprenticeship launched and i i know i know quite often it's not something that the welsh government do with a with a flurry is announced to the whole industry that there's a new apprenticeship and i'm just wondering if that's something that we could maybe help with in terms of also celebrating when the new when the new improved frameworks are available um perhaps uh perhaps raising profile celebrating um you know making people more aware of those i think could be something that um that we could certainly help with yes that that would be great okay good there's one final i've just a final question um coming in around about the uh the role of the regional skills partnerships um so i think it'd be interesting wayne just for you to give a very quick summary if you're able to of their their role and they've obviously been around for a number of years now and um they have a particular role in the um uh in in in the landscape um and and then perhaps um louise mentioned just whether how involved um your team have been i think they've been meetings between uh regional skills partnerships and people there but the uh be useful just to talk about engagement with them so why do you want to just comment on them on who they are and what their role is yeah we have um regional skills partnerships across wales and they feed the welsh government or advisor the welsh government on labor market in intelligence we have here in wales the wales apprenticeship advisory board which advises the welsh government on what frameworks to uh develop what frameworks to review and on the what we call the wob there are there is a representation from the regional skills partnership so the reason partnerships are an integral part of the wales apprenticeship advisory board and and they then advise the welsh government and helps worship ministers on developments going forward within apprenticeships fantastic yeah so and i think from memory um i think if i'm right in saying that there are uh of the three of them i think two of them have food manufacturing as a priority sector and i think one of them has food as a within an advanced manufacturing definition i think of a priority sector so again it's it's quite quite good to see um and i think um i think i've been to meeting james from the national skills academy i think where uh we were talking to one of the uh regional skills partnerships about reflecting the importance of food and drink yeah so i think i think it was probably early early last year that happened so um so yeah i think it's it's it's important that there's representation within the industry on on all of these um all of these places to make sure that we are uh we're recognized for the importance that we are i'm very conscious of the time it is now one minute to uh to three so uh if nothing else i should i should finish on time and i'd just like to say a huge thank you to uh both wayne and louise for their time and for um uh giving us such a really helpful overview of the reforms um i will stress again it's it's your your frameworks your apprenticeships employers please do get involved um and joining the consultation and just on my behalf i'd like to say huge thanks to the team at welsh government to help organize these chats they're doing a fantastic job i think wales is incredibly lucky actually to have a uh to have uh not just a skills division that really understands the importance of food and drink but a food division that really goes out of its way to help uh to help inform employers and and make a difference so a huge thanks to the team mark in particular and gwen and others uh for for putting this together and finally a thank you to all of you for attending um i know this is it's quite a detailed subject so thank you for sticking with it as well for for the duration of time and hopefully look forward to seeing you on another webinar at another time so thank you very much and have a great rest of the day and goodbye you